In conversation with Jace Ambwani and Seonaid Best
Hosted
by Penelope Gordon at Beer Rebellion for
Deer in Traffic.
So. Miss Seonaid. 6th of April
2026. It's a lovely day.
Beautiful.
What defines your practice? Such a hard
question... ‘define’ is so strong.
I know... well, visually, I think it’s
textures and exteriors in the urban landscape – but also, I’m trying to bring
that inside as well with interiors. And also, trying to... involve more objects
as well, like metal and wood and paper-making, because I think I paint a lot of
that and maybe it can be a bit more interesting, or, evoke something else when
you actually have that object as well as the painting (because I really enjoy
painting).
Conceptually, I think my work is, at the
foundation, observational, whether that’s in personal experiences or political
perspectives. I want to try bring those two together because I do think the
personal is political. Hence, why I want to try and bring in interiors because
a lot of those objects and images can be representative of policy or social
systems and how they affect your life.
So we’re talking about materiality, and
obviously I get to see some of your work in the studio, now it's taking a new
sort of turn into interiors which I really enjoy. What attracted you to the-
almost brutalist-like landscape, architecture?
Why did I start there.
Yeah!
Well, I think initially my... the flat I
lived in in the first-year of Uni was like- had an ant infestation, it had
loads of mould, I had my whole bedroom wall, one of my bedroom walls, was
covered in black mould – and I think that opened up my interest in housing and
housing policy in London, which is obviously... pretty terrible at the moment.
Yeah, so I just learned a lot about that, and with my own background in
politics, it was something that was quite easy to
research.
So I did a lot of that in first year, and then I wanted, I felt
an urge to shift that in second-year to something that had a bit more longevity
personally, which is where drawing personal experiences and connecting how
policy and political actors et cetera can influence your personal life - Which
has been a hard journey to figure out visually but I think, you know, that’s
why I’m drawing in exterior textures and then bringing in the interior.
I guess you’ve always been drawing from your own life, just from
the surroundings.
Yeah. I definitely – even before uni, I
was painting a lot of what I was surrounded by. I was doing a lot more
surrealist things... but hundred percent.
What is your background in politics, may I ask?
I did two years at Edinburgh uni studying
politics.
How does that compare to London as an
experience?
As an experience, Edinburgh is really
good as a student city but it’s obviously smaller, so there's a smaller range
of people, I guess. And then the uni itself, has a certain reputation and that
is... encouraged by the people that go there as well, so I definitely enjoyed
my experience in London more than Edinburgh, but Edinburgh’s easier in terms of
being a student.
So, Jace, what defines your practice?
I think right now, just... hmm. I think right now my practice is
defined by exploration and experimentation – I think the work that I was making
that I applied to the masters program with versus the work that I was making
immediately after, versus the work that I was making at the beginning of the
program, versus the work that I’m making now are all very different but still
interconnected. I think at the beginning, when I applied to masters programs,
my work was also very architectural. I studied architecture as my bachelors and
then I worked as an architect, an urban planner, and a lot of my work was a lot
about external spatial conditions, so like built landscape, urban conditions,
and then I got much more abstract with it and I started getting more sculptural
and diving more into self perception and a distorted identity – it was very
psychological. Now, I feel like I’ve come kind of full circle because the work
that I’m making right now – which isn’t necessarily the work that I plan on
showing – I'm kind of coming back to architecture and space, spatial
conditions, in the context of the domestic, and the house, and the home, family
dynamics and hierarchies that exist within the home. Exploring generational
trauma and upbringing and heritage through the context of the family dinner and
the girl’s bedroom, and the backyard, and things like that. So it’s very
experimental, in terms of material and expression but overall, I would define
it as generational trauma, psychological landscape and hierarchy within the
home.
Theres a lot of, probably, visual
similarities between our work, but it’s quite nice that there’s-
At
this point we were interrupted briefly by a nice lady asking for some change.
Ok, so! One thing I was going to say,
looking at some of your older paintings where it was exteriors, architecture,
there's something kind of suburban about it... we were talking about
psychology... I was reading in this book about walking (Flaneuse by Lauren
Elkin), women walking and the psychology of the suburban landscape... do you
have any thoughts?
Yeah, I have SO many thoughts about suburbia. I grew up in the
US and – those paintings were inspired by this book by James Howard Kunstler
called ‘Geography of Nowhere: the rise and decline of America’s man-made
landscape’, and it basically just talks about post-war United States and the
economic boom, just kind of the acceleration of the idea of the ‘American
Dream’, and individualism and capitalism and ownership and mobility and how
every family now, we want– it’s all about ownership: you get a house, you get a
car, white-picket fence. In general, the Ford Motor company lobbied heavily in
the government for like – I'm not explaining this at all eloquently – for these
big infrastructure projects to basically build a bunch of highways. Prior to
WW2, the United States had a pretty sophisticated rail network and that was
sort of put on a backburner after the war and instead, this massive intricate
inner-state highway system was built – which has its pros, but also, really has
a lot of cons. With that came the sprawling American suburbia that we all know.
So, I spent – I didn't grow up in this specific kind of suburbia but I did grow
up in suburbia, kind of disconnected from the city. I studied in New Orleans
and I did a road trip from New Orleans to Arkansas and I spent some time in
Texas too, and those identical cookie-cutter houses lined up, row to row, and
acres and acres of sprawling suburbia, no trees, car-centric, the nearest
grocery store is like – what would be a 20 minute drive and is also a 2 hour
walk. So, I was really inspired by the isolation that you experience in these
communities.
It’s very American, that style.
And it’s like, this guise of- it blurs the line between
individualism and isolationism because you think that you have- home ownership,
I’m not against home ownership, but to say ‘Oh, I’m an individual but, you
know, I drive the same car, I live in the exact same type of house and do the
same commute as all of my neighbours’. So, I was really inspired by these
conflicting ideas and this very unique condition, this really strange,
off-putting feeling that you get when you were driving through these suburbs in
like, Arkansas or Texas, and they’re all over. So that’s kind of what inspired
me, this- you feel very overwhelmed by just the scale of how big these suburbs
are. You just feel like this tiny little thing in this really overwhelming, but
also, very flat environment.
Kind of like the horror of suburbia, the
horror of the thing that’s depicted as so idyllic, especially in contrast with
how the city is then depicted – I guess, not even how its depicted, but how its
seen when you’re in the suburbia.
There’s city-life and there’s suburban life. I think when you’re
a kid suburbia is great because you can just ride your bikes on the street with
your friends but, I don't know, what you just said made me think about, maybe
the way that I view those paintings, or painted those paintings is almost from
the 1950’s housewife perspective, where she’s like, chained to this home
basically, and everything just starts to blend together. I just imagine her
walking through this endless suburb and also, if you’ve seen Edward
Scissorhands, this exact kind of- very liminal, backrooms feeling that exists
within the US.
There’s [a painting] that I really like
of yours, it’s like specifically showing the backs of the houses, it’s really
nice, it’s all just the shadow, that’s what it’s focused on. It’s so looming, I
just love it.
It’d be interesting to explore the
alternatives to suburbia, or city life, you know. The way people reject that in
their everyday life. How they manage to do that in a society that pushes that
way of living so much.
I think it’s a hard- it's so possible to change the way, like,
you can scale up these homes so that you have low-density housing, as opposed
to single family homes but it’s, I mean, it’s expensive but so is war, and the
US will give so much money to war, you know. You kind of have to de-condition a
population that was so against the idea- unless you were in like New York or a
big city- but against the idea of shared communities and apartments. You kind
of have to put in a lot of work psychologically for the population in order to
undo these things even though it would be, in my opinion, a net positive.
Next question for Miss Seonaid, what was
your favourite piece that you’ve worked on?
Oooo! Hmm...I need to think about that. I
think it’s a piece I did last year, or maybe the year before? It kind of looks
like different coloured blue tiles with a background of different styles of
housing in London, and then there's this, like, bike tool on the front but it’s
outlined. I really liked working on that one because it came really quickly,
but also, the beginning of my process is really informed by the pictures I take
around London, and that was just very simply, I put together three images and then
I bought this tool at a car boot sale and put it on top- didn't necessarily
mean anything, but I think as I made it it was really... I really enjoyed that
it was informed so much by textures and pictures around London. It felt very-
it really encompassed my practice at the time.
That’s so lovely. Miss Jace? What was
your favourite piece that you worked on?
Hmm. There’s a couple. I mean the suburbs painting, which is
currently in Germany, sitting in a storage unit with all my other paintings
from Germany! I mean that one I have I’m very emotionally attached to for a
multitude of reasons, like, it was my first kind of completed, genuine project
that I did after moving to Germany and I started it in my apartment on my tiny
balcony and then by the time I was finishing it I was subletting a studio, so
it kind of came with me through this development. It’s also just a really nice
painting and I’m really really happy with it. I think in terms of what I’ve
made here, because I feel much more connected to the work I’m making now, I’m
really happy with this move into sculpture and metal-work that I’m doing. The
shrines. Specifically the little tower shrine, not necessarily the house, the
family dinner that opens and closes – that is a very technically cool project
that I enjoyed working on but, this little house that was meant to be a
prototype for a part of a bigger dollhouse just ended up looking really nice on
its own. I think that one right now is definitely my favourite. I still keep
coming back to it.
Why?
I don’t know. There’s just so much that I can do with it. I’ve
made these tiny little chairs and I like to be able to- the chairs are meant
for the family dinner shrine but I- I'll sometimes put the chairs in the house
and have different kind of candles and it’s been really fun to use the shrine
and see what- ‘cause when you put a candle on the bottom floor, it’ll heat up
the floor on top of it and that candle will melt faster, and then that will
heat up the floor above that one and so, you kind of just- it's a-
Discussion of hierarchy.
Yeah, it’s hierarchy, it’s also- it’s really nice to watch. I
find when I put candles in there and I light them, I just will sit there and
watch them until they burn. And so, I’ve been having a lot of fun using that
piece to test...it’s been a fun piece that I can experiment with as I’m working
on other pieces, seeing how a different, you know, if I wanna use copper or
brass for tiny furniture, how would that look in the steel? And then, which
candles melt faster? So, I think for that one, I think that’s my favourite one
just because of what it allows me to do and what it symbolically means as this
step into sculpture and metalwork.
I love when you can bring something that
you’ve used on one piece of work to other pieces of work, because it can both
be like, all your work is cohesive and there’s continuity but also, if it’s
genuine, and you’re like, ‘Oh, I keep coming back to this for some reason’,
it’s really nice as not the artist, as a viewer, to see that appearing
throughout all of your work
Yeah and I think that is in the nature of a shrine: a shrine, or
an altar, is in itself an installation. It’s like a personal installation, it’s
very personal to the person that owns the shrine. I want that in my work to
where it doesn't just stay fixed as it is but it evolves like, the wax will
build up, and so the way the way that the shrine looked when I burnt the
initial candles versus how it looks now is- you've got this build up of wax and
sometimes the wax will crack and break off or like, I have burns now on the
steel from the candles, so it’s just continually evolved, just like a shrine
when you can remove things or add things, and I’d really like that to be
something that people can interact with my work somehow.
Also symbolically just showing like, I
mean, you know when you have the shiny new house and then there’s just burning
inside of it, radiating from the centre and heat rising and it all just
permeating through the layers it’s- the traces of it are still there, and I
think that’s so true for family relationships.
Exactly, exactly.
I think also, we’re all- we all have
immigrant parents and I think that as well can carry so much in terms of things
never actually getting resolved, I don’t know if it’s- it feels almost like a
cultural thing and then the next time, it’s not the fresh slate, it’s like
there’s something already there, it’s already a bit tarnished.
And if it’s not talked about, the trauma in my family that I’ve
inherited is... it’s just not talked about, like I really don’t know the extent
of it but I see it, you know? I can see that there’s something going on here,
there’s something that’s being projected onto me and my siblings and I know
that there’s something there but it’s just not spoken about so the heat and the
burns within the home are there but the physical candle has melted away.
And it’s not even, it’s not extinguished,
it’s not dealt with, it’s just left to burn out till it’s just like, ‘Well...
it’s done now! It’s over’, like water under the bridge...
But it’s never over.
It’s never over!
It always continues. Have to break the chain.
I love that. Okay, Seonaid! Could we talk
a little bit about your creative process as well? You used to make – I don’t
know if you still make – these little stamps... I loved them.
Oh yeah...yeah! I think it starts off
with me taking lots of pictures and doing a lot of research, recently I think
I’ve been doing more research than I have been making work. Meow. Yeah, it’s
really important to me to... I’m hugely inspired by other artists and how they
incorporate object and painting, so I bring my own experiences, my own
political and social perspective, other artist’s work and then pictures that
I’ve taken. And then when it comes to actually making the work, yeah, I really
like to use tools which, I think can be symbolic of what I end up painting. But yeah, I make little stamps of bricks
out of foam sheets! I have a little collection of those now... I’ve started
using lace and polishing cloth to spray paint on top for a different texture. I
really find it very interesting to figure out how to make different textures on
a smooth surface. I know you can build up layers with various acrylic grounds
and sands and stuff but I really like a thin, layered, smooth surface so it’s
fun to see what kind of everyday things I can use to make repetitive patterns
or sand away layers and build up. I wanna try and do more collage-style painting, ‘cause I have a lot of
things I want to put on one painting and it’s hard to show that through one
painting or one piece. It’s hard to show that through one image.
What you were describing earlier did
actually make me think of collage, when you were talking about taking the
pieces from the junk shop and the pictures...
Yeah, I think that’s why that felt so
successful to me, I didn’t realise it at the time and then I tried to recreate
it and it was a bit of a flop. I think I’m now coming round to realise that I
have all these different things that inspire me and I can put it together like
a collage and it can work in that way.
It’s also very- I feel like your process from what you’re saying
is also like, almost print-making based as well. Like you’re using these
different materials and fabrics and making your own little stamps so it’s also
quite inter-disciplinary.
Yeah, yeah, I really like that. I really
love painting and that’s something that I don’t think I’d ever take away from
my practice, but I really want to involve other ways of working alongside that
and I think what I show at the degree show will really... really show that!
Ayyyy!
Ooh, I'm excited.
Any hints?
Any hints? It’s mixed media! It’s a
little bit of this, little bit of that...
On the edge of my fucking seat.
You just have to wait. June 12th.
Is that when it is?
I think so!
Ok pur.
Put that in your calendar, girl!
No, for real I need to.
Our’s is June 29th to July 4th.
Cut that.
Ok, so. Miss Jace. How has your creative process... sort of... developed because, I’ve seen your stories, girl...I’ve seen you in the metal shop.
I’ve been in the metal shop! Yeah, I don’t- I feel like I’m
still learning what my creative process is. It's definitely- it's a really
emotional process – I be crashing out y’all.
You can not tell from what you post, I’m
like, ‘She’s on it!’
No I’m not! I deadass...making these fucking chairs, they were
so- they were my boulder, like, I was Sisyphus in there. Every single time –
‘cause they only have one kind of solder, and every single time I would connect
a piece and go to heat up another piece, it would break! At one point I had
finished, I think, my fourth out of five chairs and I was like, ‘amazing,’ and I
was holding it and I dropped it and it broke and then I accidentally burned my
stomach with the soldering tool and I had to just like- I fully was about to
just burst into tears. I really had to like... do some deep breaths. It’s very-
I think my process is, it’s very endurance based as well and it’s very much
hands-on. I’ve been trying to- ‘cause the purpose of this masters program, it’s
an MA, so it’s a research degree and I’ve been trying to figure out what
research means to me and how that plays a role in my creative process because
before I would just make something and figure it out or I would have an idea
and make that and then I would be like, ‘Well, I don't have that- I don't have
any ideas anymore.’ But then, when I started- when I made the chastity belt
with the mask, that was just because me and my friend were like, ‘Oh my god
let’s go to studio, make some masks and just have fun,’ and that kind of
triggered a whole thing for me. So I think, I’m trying to incorporate,
research-wise, I’m trying to incorporate more – yes, researching artists of
course – going to events and shows and just trying to see more things and get
inspired. I’ve been, when I was in Spain – when I was in España – I went to
some chapels and churches to see how they do their shrines.
That’s good research.
It was a research trip!
You can claim that back.
Also, like, in architecture there’s- you can walk around and
maybe there's a little spot where there’s a – I don’t know how to explain it –
there’s a shelf in the facade where you can put a shrine in there. So just- I
think it’s less traditional research which is very much literature-based,
watching a lot of interviews and more going outside of the studio, outside of
the library, just walking around and thinking until something comes to my mind
or I make a connection. With metal, that is a process that is particularly,
really, I'm just very drawn to. I mean, I applied to this program because I
wanted to learn to work with metal and use these workshops and I really like
that A, it’s an industrial material and it’s quite architectural as well – the
extraction process from mining metals to when it becomes ready to be used in a
production setting is really intense, it’s a very intense process to get to a
sheet of steel, versus if you look at a- of course extracting wood and other
materials is also quite intense but there’s something- you know, you have to
use plasma to cut steel and lots of heat and these saws that will kill you if
you use them the wrong way. There’s this sort of– this is actually kind of a
funny story – there’s this whole barrier between me and the metal, you know, if
I’m welding or I’m soldering, I need to have gloves, if not two layers of
gloves, a protective coat, goggles, the welding helmet and I can’t see shit out
of that thing and I just have to trust that I know what I’m doing and there’s
this barrier between me and the thing that I’m working on! I was talking about
this at a private view and the woman who I was talking to, when I said that,
she was like, ‘Do you think that maybe is a reflection of how you approach
relationships?’
Oh!
Woah...
I was like, ‘First of all! Yes. Definitely. Second of all, why
would you say that?’ But there is an avoidant nature to working with such an
intense material where it’s not as delicate as painting...
At the same time, sometimes people use
materials and it feels like they’re just distancing themselves further and
further from tapping into anything emotional whereas yours seems fraught with
emotion. The whole process is emotional and laborious.
It’s laborious, it’s painful...I burned myself! You know, that
shit hurts! You just keep going, the amount of times I’ve scratched myself on
the metal or like- when I was making the family dinner altar with the hinges
that open, I had to go onto weldonhinges.com and I bought a bunch of hinges and
I welded one of them on backwards!
How do you remove it?
You don’t! That’s the thing is like... I went up to one of the
technicians and I was like, ‘What can I do?’, and she was like,
‘Yeah...(shrugs).’
Do you just start again?
No, you just accept it. I am someone who, especially in her
process, I feel like in painting – I hit a plateau with painting and I love
painting – but I’m such a control freak to where I would find myself working in
loops with a painting where I would just slightly change this bit and then I
would change this bit and I just found there was no way that I could stop
myself. I just could not accept a painting as it was and I think, with metal,
with something that is very permanent to work with, you just have to accept it –
if you weld on your hinge backwards, its backwards! It doesn’t shut all the way
properly and that’s just how it is. With the family dinner shrine, what I did
to get the photos onto the metal is a process called screen etch resist where
you make a screen for screen printing from photos and then you screen print
varnish onto the metal and then you put it in an acid bath so that it etches
away the image. Oh my god, talk about letting go. You can look in the acid
bath, you can use a little feather to see how much it’s etched, but the only
way you know how much it has or hasn’t etched is when you take it out and you
wash off the varnish and once you do that, you can’t put it back in the bath.
You have to trust your instincts, and I got lucky to where I- not lucky, ‘cause
I just learned to accept it. If it doesn’t look the way you were hoping it
looked – that’s it. On top of that, the steel will rust.
I love that, though...that’s a bit of me.
I was getting so frustrated because it would rust within hours. You
put so much labour and emotion into a piece and when you make a mistake it
stings that much more, but it’s also very liberating at some point when you’re
like, ‘this is how it is!’ And that’s life, you’re gonna make mistakes that
really matter to you and you just have to keep going.
I think it’s important, as creatives, I
was talking to my friend about this, that we have an outlet that is not
necessarily something we want to be our career or something we want to
monetise. This is sort of in relation to you talking about metal, when I’m
doing ceramics, that is purely for enjoyment and to be creative. This is all to
say that, I think it’s really good to add something to your practice, whether
that’s even just a different way of painting, or doing really small paintings,
or metal or wood or ceramics, that is like, ‘I only have so much control over
this and however it turns out, it turns out,’ because it will be a way where
you’re not so- you can get so within yourself and everything can go, like you
said, a loop and you can go round and round, and it’s good to get to have
something where it’s like, ‘this isn’t what I had in mind but I like it for
these reasons.’ You start to fall in love with the process rather than the
outcome. I think it’s very important to have something in your process that is
like that and limits you – limitations allow creative people to get really
really creative, because when you can do anything, you end up doing nothing
because there’s so much option.
I think that’s also such a good metaphor for life in general,
there’s that saying, ‘does life imitate art or does art imitate life?’ Exactly
what you said, you can try to control everything that happens in your life but
– a pandemic might happen. A war might happen.
Or both.
Or both! You have to learn to just let go. If you have too much
control and too much freedom then you just will be completely stagnant with it.
So if, Jace, if your practice has a
natural end point where you have to accept it, which I am also personally going
through right now, then Seonaid, how do you know when to stop, when it’s done?
I think if you asked me this a year ago
I’d be like, ‘I have no idea! I just keep going until it’s done,’ but I’m
thinking of some of the paintings I’ve been working on recently and I think
I’ve simplified what I’m painting, rather than painting the whole scene, I'm
painting part of an object or part of something. That makes it a lot easier to
be like, ‘Okay, well, this part is done.’ Going back to process, I think adding
lots of layers – if you’re painting with oil for example – you add a layer, you
gotta wait for it to dry and then you add another layer. I think either at some
point you’re gonna be like, ‘I’m fed up with painting this so I think it’s done
now!’ or you will add so many layers – and that’s the great thing about working
really thin, is that you can add so many layers and when you get to a point
when you’re like, ‘Ooh! That’s- I really love that!’, you can stop. Yeah, so I
think just the way I’ve actually started painting, the process of painting has
allowed me to, it forces me to be like, ‘Okay, what do you think of this? Can
you add another layer? Do you want to?’ If not, then, just leave it.
So I’ve been showing with you, in the uni
shows and stuff, for a while and – even in ‘Rooms’, as well – you never put any
description for your work, you never do, right?
Not really, no.
Why?
I think because, there was- I can’t
remember where I saw this, maybe in a video or maybe I read it somewhere, I
think it was an artist talking about titling your work and they were like,
“Don’t just title your work” - say you did a painting of a house, don’t just
title it like, ‘Red door’ if you painted the door red, have the title allude to
why you’re painting it or the “meaning”, or what was important in the process.
I really took that on, and I really think about how I title my works and that
is a huge clue to the piece and what it’s supposed to mean or, what kind of
feeling I’m trying to evoke so, the title is the description. Sometimes I’ll do
a description, but it’ll be very short, if I do. I do think it’s interesting
because I do so much research before I paint so I do have a lot to say but
there’s something quite nice about keeping it short and sweet.
For you I feel that the explanation will
come one day but right now it’s just the work on its own.
Yeah, I think so, yeah. Maybe,
eventually, I think it would be really nice to get into the nitty gritty of all
these things I’m researching, but all my work is connected to each other so
that would have to be like a whole chunk of writing in itself.
So last question, I’ll start with Jace.
Hi.
Hi. Have you got anything coming up or
projects or anything you’re just excited about?
Yeah, well, I’m excited to be showing my work with Seonaid at
Beer Rebellion. Really excited, it’s gonna be fun! I haven’t done a show that
was also in like a... I’ve only been in shows where it’s been in more of a
gallery setting so I'm excited to be in a show that’s much more social, where
the socialising exists and the artwork is just kind of, there. But, yeah,
actually I’m gonna be in another group show sometime in very late April or May,
that’s coming up and then, honestly, I’m just excited for the course to start
again, I wanna start making... we have proposals coming up for our degree show
and I have no fucking idea what I wanna do. Yep, excited for London summer,
outside, sunshine and yeah, I don’t know, just excited. Things are looking up,
you know?
Miss Seonaid?
For me, also very excited to be showing
with Jace... I think it’s gonna be very fun. I think our work is going to
compliment each other. And then our degree show in June, I’m excited for... I’m
doing a lot of painting at home, I’m really excited to work with some metal as
well. And then do some more paper-making! That was a huge part of my practice
last year. So yeah, I’m just really excited for what I’m gonna show at the
degree show, I think it really encompasses everything that I’ve talked about
today, unlike the rest of my work which is little bits, bits and bobs, whereas
this is kind of like everything that I want. Everything that I want my practice
to be!
Okay last question actually, quick-fire:
if a fairy portal opened in front of you, would you go in it?
Absolutely I would.
If literally any portal opened in front of me, I would go in
there.
Thankyou so much.
Would you go in there?
Yes! Of course! I’m not even thinking
twice. I'm in.
Jace
and Seonaid’s show will be on display at Beer Rebellion from the 22nd
of April till the 22nd of May 2026.
Private
view 7pm 22.4.26
Beer
Rebellion, 129 Queen’s Rd, London, SE15 2ND
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